Lived Experience Forum

[QuietSoul]

Hi all.

It's been a while since i have been in forums of this nature.  I remember years ago the MSN chat rooms, they were not good places, all that happened were people posting inappropriate stuff and others getting triggered. 

Anyways...

I have struggled with depression throughout my life, some times worse than others.  I have also experienced some trauma in my life.  When I was 14, i experienced the onset of bipolar disorder, it was a pretty scary time.  

These days, and three breakdowns later, i think i am doing ok.  For me anyway.  Not perfect, far from it, but better than i was a while back.  

Some of the things that i really struggle with now are crap doctors.  Psychiatrists if i am specific.  I have always kept that to myself in these forums because i don't want to discourage others from seeking help if they need it (and in that regard i should add that most of my experiences have been positive overall) but there are some really toxic ones around and there are experiences that leave people scarred and unable/unwilling to seek out that help again at their most desperate point.  I feel it's a discussion that needs ot be had.  The issue needs to be flagged and brought into the light by orgs such as Sane and others.  

I had a bad experience this year.  I wish i never saw her.  I don't think she was/is an evil person, i just think they get to a point where they don't pay attention, where they can be flippant, careless, indifferent or just burnt out.  Some of the ones who have been around for a while can also become really cynical, to the point they look at you with suspicion like youi're lying about your condition or the extent of what you are going through or the meds you are on.  Psychs deal with some really heavy stuff and i guess in some way they have to mentally and emotionally remove themselves from their "work self", i do get that, but i don't know what support is around for them to make sure they are giving their clients appropriate care and not leaving them worse than when they came in the door.

So  i saw this psych in May, and i had seen my old psych before her at the end of last year.  I have made an appointment with my old one for next month but i am seriously considering cancelling it... i was pressured into making the appointment by hospital staff (not psych hospital, but where i recently had a baby) and i don't mind my old one, he is ok... no miracle worker but he isn't toxic so that's good enough for me these days.  What will happen is that i will pay a tidy sum for him to ask me common sense questions and try to tweak my meds.  The thing is, i already know i can't take certain meds because i am breastfeeding my newborn baby.  Those are the meds he would prefer me to be on, which i haven't been on because i have been pregnant or trying to get pregnant.  I can't go on them anyway, so we will have that conversation and i will leave his rooms the same way i went in.  No worse, no better, just the same, and there's nothing he can do really because of my current circumstances.

My psychologist wanted me to try a new psych, but she works at a hospital that the toxic one from May has some connection with and i feel like i need ot avoid all places this other psych works at.

Sorry for the rant.  Am just really tired of all this, and praying to God that i don't have another breakdown in my life because i don't know if i couold handle trying to get help again and encountering another toxic human when i am feeling so vulnerable.  Sorry if this triggers anyone.  I feel like i have nowhere to express this...

[Jacques]

Hi @QuietSoul,

Welcome to the forums, what you have said, has really hit a cord with me, i have been to two psycologists, both of them where unhelpful and one was just down right nasty, like i was "putting it on" for the welfare, you are right, we often try to sugar coat how the MH system is working, the mental health system is under huge strain and is almost in crisis, not through lack of trying, but a huge reduction in funding and a massive increase in the number of patients.

Do i think their is a quick solution, no, but people like you, me and others comming to these forums and helping the professionals understand what it is like from the patients perspective is so important.

Thank you so much for sharing your story, i hope to see you around the forums.

Take care, be kind to yourself.

Jacques

[ivana]

Hi Quietsoul,

Your experience is the same as many people and its very unfortunate that people like this are being paid per consultation instead of the quality of service that is delivered.

In addition,there are no checks and balances or punitive measures to prevent outright abusive or toxic treatment.

In other services,such as retail,if a "service provider" (shop assistant) is disrespectful to customers they can lose their job or a rude shopkeeper will lose business etc.In the Medical Profession though,there are no  repurcussions for disrespectful "service providers".

If you seen her in a hospital setting,i hope you put in complaint about her.

They may not do anything about it,but the more people that complain the better.

[chibam]

@QuietSoul

Like Jacques, your post really struck a cord with me, too.

I've given up on the therapy thing completely after a total 8+ nightmarish years mainly revolving around 2 therapists who were each terrible for their own separate reasons.

You mention not wanting to talk about this for fear of discouraging others from going in to therapy and this is an idea that I really wrestle with. On one hand I know that "saying no evil" about therapy is what we're supposed to do - that we're all supposed to lift therapy and therapists on to a pedestal as part of this new national interest in fighting mental illness. But on the other hand, I so wish I had a time machine right now, so I could go back and warn myself never to stumble in to the nightmare I had to endure. Obviously, I can't help myself in that regard, but it's like... Don't I have a duty to warn the people who are today where I was all those years ago? I stay silent when I hear people talk about venturing in to therapy for the first time, because I can't honestly say anything in favor of therapy, but I know I'm not supposed to say anything against it, either. But I really feel like I'm betraying those people for not warning them to bail out before they get trapped...

I realize that there are people out there who will testify that therapy actually did them some good. But I also know I am nowhere near alone in my own disastrous experience of therapy. Not many mental health sites tollerate therapy-bashing, but on one site I know of (or knew of a few years ago - don't know if it's still up), the forum on damaging therapy experiences went on for pages and pages! Even if statistically 5 out of 6 people who play russian roulette come out of it okay, does that mean we shouldn't warn people of the hazards of playing it?

Incidentally, I'm wondering, for people who can sympathize with this point of view, do you find yourself reluctant to say anything because your afraid that if you do, everyone will side with the fancy-degreed, successful therapist instead of the "mentally disordered" patient? I often wonder what the clientelle of mental therapists' odds really are of being able to get the problems with the industry acknowledged and dealt with. Who are the people in a position to fix things more likely to listen to?

@Jacques

I certainly won't argue with you that there are major funding shortfalls with mental health treatment. But something that really doesn't get enough attention with this issue is that the problems can't just be fixed by throwing money at them. A really large component of the problems are attitude problems, both within the industry, within the government and within our culture as a whole.

Regardless of how efficient and how well-resourced it is, having a system where the patients are doped-up and herded on to a one-size-fits-all straight-and-narrow path, which I beleive is what a lot of people want the system to be, is a very poor solution. Patients need to recognized as being human beings and individuals, as well. They need the system to listen to them and respect what they have to say. A therapist listening to a patient shouldn't be about deducing a strategy for how they can crack that patient, it should be about retrieving an itenarary about what that patient needs fixed with their life. When the patient goes up against the world, the therapist shouldn't be another opponent with the crosshairs fixed upon them, they should be the patient's ally, fighting by their side.

We need to do away with this perception of patients being"damaged goods in need of repair" Patients aren't goods - their people. And maybe they aren't the ones who are damaged. Maybe it's the world they have to wake up in, and walk through every single day that's damaged. Maybe it's not them that need treatment, but their lives that need it.

And on that note, I'd also like to suggest that we try to get rid of this perception that "if you know someone who is mentally ill, talk them in to going to a therapist. Bing-bang-boom, your job's done." Dealing with "mentall illness"is a community issue, and that means that everyone in the community has a role in remedying it. If we expect that a patient's community will be, or continue to be, an element of a patient's life, then as part of the treatment of that patient's problems, shouldn't we strive to see that that community is optimized for their best possible outcome? I think we need to see an attitude of common respect and a willingness to listen being seeded in the community, and this is the frustrating part because this is the part that will really take time to change, I think. We need to get away from this mindset of "Oh, Joe is mentally ill is he? Well that therapist he's seeing ought to fix him right up!" and get more towards a mindset like "I wonder if there's something small I can do for Joe to make things run a bit smoother for him?"

Not to mention the fact that some "mental illnesses" are actually caused by problems with the community, e.g. the damage that bullying does to people.

Sorry for the rant, people.

[Jacques]

Hi @chibam,

OMG i have had the same thought, that maybe people with anxiety and depression are not the problem, it is the society we have made for ourselves, if western society and "democracy" is so wonderful, why is it that depression and anxiety is increasing at an alarming rate, i think technology plays a big part in our mental health in a destructive way, ie social media, etc, it does have soem good points like this forum, but when i first started on the internet in 1995, it was so wonderful, now it is unrecognisable, it is all about money and bullying.

I am going to say this, but please moderators and anyone reading this, it is my own opinion based on actual experiance.

My father had Motor Neuron Disease, he was confined to a wheelchair, he was active and wanted to gain his certification as a psycologist, he went to uni and i had to be their because he could not write, i wrote all his notes and wrote all his essays, one thing they teach in university to new people trainning in psycology is never question, other that have come before have all the knowledge, you just have to remember it and practice it, another words they always try to fit a person into a text book they learned from because that is what they are taught!!!!

Moderators if i have pushed the limit, please remove this post.

Thank you @chibam & @QuietSoul, this is a very important thread, this conversation need to be had.

take care all.

[Shimmer]

Wow. Welcome to the Forums @QuietSoul and @chibam, and thank you for raising a key issue for people going through a tough time with their mental health who may be unsure about what to do. I agree with @Jacques, this is such an important conversation to have.

@QuietSoul thanks for voicing your dilemma of wanting to express your frustration with poor treatment you have received in the past, yet not wanting to discourage help-seeking. Expressing it in the way you have, by also noting that most of your experiences have been positive overall (great to hear!), offers a balanced picture, from which others can make their own choices.

Your mixed experiences also highlight the variation in approaches between mental health professionals. You're right, it is tragic when a bad experience leaves people unable/unwilling to seek help again when they most need it. @chibam, your concern about people feeling "trapped" with a clinician they find unhelpful is also an important one. From my perspective, it is crucial to spread the message that clinicians are all different (just like clients!), and it's about finding someone you click with - you are allowed to ask questions and you are allowed to try someone else if something isn't working for you! Different clinicians' styles will suit different people, it's about finding the right one for you as an individual.

@chibam I passionately agree with you that clients and clinicians are equals, and need to work together on changing what the individual wants to change in their lives. From where I stand, attitudes are changing within the mental health profession, shifting away from seeing clinicians as experts "on a pedestal" and clients as "damaged goods in need of repair". Many clinicians no longer follow the "one-size-fits-all" path (often favouring medication), nor try to fit individuals into textbook learning @Jacques - rather, their treatment approaches are much more person-centred, rightly treating clients as human beings and individuals, to be listened to, respected, and collaborated with.

I recognise that this isn't the case with all clinicians (that's why it is important to find one that works for you!), but I believe the profession is moving in the right direction - I think I am picking up on your "hopeful" vibe @QuietSoul!

Thanks again everyone for starting this conversation, it's clearly one that many of you are passionate about (like me!) It's also clear that you all have the best interests of those seeking help at heart, which is wonderful to see.

I'm excited to hear more of all your thoughts on this!

Shimmer 🙂

[Appleblossom]

@QuietSoul i also applaud your thread topic.

I rejected medication whilst breast-feeding and never regretted it.

[ivana]

I agree with everything you wrote Chibam-from the "criticism" of certain mental health workers to societies tendency to think that a Psychiatrist/Psychologist/Hospital will "fix" the person instead of the community helping each other.

I think society(the public) is conditioned to think it's not their job to help others,that their not qualified or that they can't, and the way we use words such as "professional help" "see a professional" and so on is part of the problem because it can give some mental health workers an ego where they think only they are qualified to help another human.

To be honest,I'll state it outright that I'm getting quite fed up of the notion that we should always paint a "rose coloured glasses" view of the Mental Health System and Psychiatrists.That we should always be naive and optimistic instead of realistic andd suggest it's improving,when for many people this simply isn't the case. 

It seems Sane and other organisations want this view propagated so that certain people arn't deterred from seeking these services.

Noone wants anyone to be deterred,but at the same time it's unrealistic and really bad for other people because if we don't tell it as it is then it can never be changed what won't be acknowledged.

The reality is some people are not seeing ANY of the cultural attitudal changes that @shimmer was referring to.

This may be due to difference in locations,however the reality is that these changes are not happening at all in some areas/some public hospitals.

To have a view that there are simply different Psychiatrists or Psychologists personalities for different patients neglects that fact that there are also some abusive Psychiatrists practicing without repercussions.

It shouldn't be neglected that there's still are too many Psychiatrists (or other) that think their opinion,word or view trumps the patient/s,that abuse their power,that do see themself as being on a "higher level" than the patient/s,that hold stigmatising attitudes to certain patients,that take offence or get angry when someone thinks they-the expert-arn't right or don't know all the answers,that take themselves too seriously,and that do want titles,prestige and accolades.

It's important we not be naive and understand that not all people go into this career for the right reasons-some go into it for self-serving or even, occasionally,pathological reasons.

There are currently no repercussions when service providers act this way and I think to continue painting a rosy outlook that the mental health system is improving instead of addressing reality will continue to ensure they never will receive repercussions.

Link:"Consumer and carer experiences of stigma from mental health and other health professionals"

 https://mhaustralia.org/sites/default/files/imported/component/rsfiles/publications/Consumer_and_Car...

[Appleblossom]

Two of the earlier psychiatrists I saw .. ended up having enquiries into them .. and one was disbarred .. no names .. they are just people, a flawed as we all are... intentional understatement ... they certainly raked in dollars from the medical items nos.

No, we do not want to deter anybody from reaching out or receiving real help.

Yes, there can be positive outcomes from a "horses for courses" approach, but it is a little ad hoc and insufficient. There is a very high risk for many people to fall between the cracks in such an unregulated system.  Speaking from experience.

I have also found a rose-coloured glasses approach quite insulting, have come across it regularly, but try not to let it rile me.

Consumers or clients or patients .. we are people too.

[Neb]

My reality with psychiatrists was from the lets fill you up with pills until you are a zombie, to the I don't know what to do with you but too egotistical to try to find an alternative.