Lived Experience Forum

[Terry]

The Mental health System is violent and abusive towards its patients.  Unfortunately, if you try to get any semblance of justice for any of this, or a guarantee that you will not be subjected to more of it, the Department of Health will threaten repercussions.  Shocking but true.

[kristin]

Hi @Terry 

A warm welcome to the forum!

Thanks for your input - I'm so sorry you've experienced that. People get abused by lots of "systems" which are supposed to safeguard their rights, including government ones which are supposed to "help". People with any disability are particularly vulnerable.

Take care, keep posting. "See" you around!

Kind regards, 

Kristin

[Terry]

Hi Kristin, thank you for your response.  Are you not aware that under the mental health act people with mental illnesses have no rights?

[Ellie]

Terry, could you give some examples of your experiences please? I have a diagnosed mental disorder (BPD, social anxiety, general anxiety) and am at the same time a mental health nurse and I know the Victorian system pretty well. I live and work in Victoria and have heard that some people suffering MH are not inclined to put in official complaints because they fear repercussions, yet I've worked throughout all the sections of mental health from child and adolescence through to geriatric and have only ever once seen anything resembling brutality and the person responsible was put in by another staff member and subsequently sacked immediately.

Since then, the new Victorian mental health act was introduced mid 2014 and it's tightened up even further the rights of individuals who are inpatients in MH units. You have to be seriously unwell to have a treatment order placed on you and the aim is to get people back to their home environment ASAP. Even restraint to give an injection has to be timed now to make sure there is no harm done to the patient. Also, patients (and I'm only speaking about inpatients here) have the right to a review by the Mental Health Review board and they come out in timely fashion. Maybe things are simply done differently in other States?

Having said that, I know there was brutality in the old days and there are still some older nurses in the system who would be brutal if they could get away with it, but they're not game to flinch. Too many others watching over them to pounce and get rid of them and they know it.

Terry, I'm not trying to dismiss your claims. Far from it. You've obviously had some nasty experiences and it's certainly time for an overall change. I think one of the problems still remains that those suffering an episode of MI have to go through A@E. I believe a special admitting and assessment unit be provided in each hospital where MI is treated. Failing that, much more teaching of A@E staff needs to be done and maintained.

In the large city in which I work, there is a mental health advocate organisation who had a peer support worker who is also a good friend of mine. She is constantly stating how her clients will not fill out an official complaint form for fear of retaliation. She tries to tell them that there will be no repercussions and that it will help make the system better, but they remain too scared to fill them out. On and on it goes and nothing is happening as a result.

[ivana]

Your right Terry.People with mental illnesses dont have legal rights-unlike other people.

There are no legal or punitive ramifications if they are abused or treated disrespectfully.

If things are done to them by force or that harm their dignity or modesty usually there are no repurcussions to the abuser.They are seen as good,overstressed healthcare workers who "had to do what had to be done" -so to speak.

Instead of rights there are merely "ideals" or "guidelines".Obviously people who abuse power dont apply "guidelines".

It would be akin to letting a pedophile remain working in a child care centre and giving them an set of "guidelines" of how the children should be treated and not treated.

Or a different example:

If a childcare worker had security guards or themselves push down a unruly child and strap them down,it would cause public outrage and be classed as abuse.

However,these sort of things happen everyday in Psychiatric wards to both children and adults but it is ignored and the public is indifferent.The patients feelings of trauma,powerless,worthlessness,humiliation etc "dont matter".

As long as there is no threat of criminal charges,people keep abusing power whether it be in hospitals,armed forces,churches etc..

Part of the problem i believe is that alot of people have this rose coloured glasses view that treatment of the mentally ill has improved but this is often not the case and only by acknowledging this, instead of having a false sense of positivity or wishfull thinking, can this be addressed.

In some ways things really are no different from the old asylums.

Ie:before "difficult" patients were chained to old beds.Now they are "chained" with straps to very expensive new beds.

Mental Health organisations create a lot of discussion about Mental health awareness and improving mental health services and access to treatment but usually they make no mention that some of the treatment providers are abusive or dysfunctional and no programmes to ensure patients are treated with respect and dignity.

Finally the public and government is recognising and regretting the abuses that happened to Indigenous people at the hands of those who had "good intent" ,however, it seems unlikely that people with mental illnesses will recieve the same recognition of their feelings.

[Ellie]

"In some ways things are really no different from the old asylums. Ie:before "difficult" patients were chained to old beds. Now they are "chained" with straps to very expensive new beds."

Am I living on another planet or something? Or maybe it's just my local mental health service, but at no time are any of our inpatients strapped to beds. This is strictly a big no-no. Just to give a sedative for someone who is totally out of control and threatening staff and other patients, we first have to get hold of the duty psychiatrist who will then write out the necessary paper work and script for a one-off injection, usually 2mg of Olanzepine. Sometimes more, but for each injection, the same protocol is strictly enforced.

When a person is brought to our service, they may be held to the ambulance stretcher by straps for transport, unless deemed able to sit in the back, but once they cross our threshold, they must immediately be released from any restraints. The outcome is sometimes worrying and staff are put at great risk, usually in the case of those under the influence of amphetimines. Sometimes they're so out of control that extra staff are engaged to safely escort them to the PICU where they will be watched closely. If they're banging their heads on the wall and at risk of self harm or serious self harm to others, the duty psych will then be called in to write out the script for a sedative injection.

I've been an out-patient of my very own mental health service for some months now and I've only ever been treated with the utmost respect. If this other stuff is happening in other States or even in Victoria, then I suggest you contact an organisation that can help you make a official complaint.

[kristin]

Hi Terry,

Do you mean literally no legal rights? Or effectively none? BTW what state are you in?

KInd regards,

Kristin

[ivana]

Ellie:

Re:"In some ways things are really no different from the old asylums. Ie:before "difficult" patients were chained to old beds. Now they are "chained" with straps to very expensive new beds."

Dignified (or lack of) varies from hospital to hospital-including in the same state.

Im glad its not happening in your hospital but it does happen elsewhere-for example if you google James Pascoe,regarding what happened to a boy with autism.

You mentioned "timing" protocols are in place to prevent patients being physically harmed but i'm guessing there is nothing in place that addresses the psychological harm that occurs to some people from being treated with aggression or force?

Personally ive witnessed appaling things happen to patients both in E.D and in a ward.

For example a woman being forced to the ground by numerous staff members and then forcibly injected.

Witnessing this,and the atmosphere of aggression and fear surrounding this event,made me feel fear and fear of retribution if i complained even though it wasnt me it was being done to.

In addition numerous times while at E.D for physical problems, ive witnessed E.D doctors treat the patinets there for "mental reasons" vastly different then people there for physical ones.

Its not always physical aggression but thing like yelling at them when they moved off their bed,and using things like being sectioned as a threat if they dont "behave".

Ive also heard stories of women having their pants pulled down and being injected in their buttocks by male staff.Thats a gross violation of modesty and traumatising and humiliating of course.

Alos ive witnessed E.D staff using the term being "sectioned" as a threat/scare tactic instead of what it was designed to be used for.That is an abuse of power.

Its just general disrespectful speech and behavour which they dont act like that for cancer patients-for example.

This is a generalisation as of course im sure theres good staff too however from what ive witnessed they act "cowardly" as ive never seen then speak out about collegues behavour and generally some hospitals have a culture of staff "closing ranks".

When people do make complaints about these sorts of abuses usually noone does anything.

The patient liason officers at hospitals usually take their peers side,HCCC isnt interested in "mental patient" stories...so nothing changes.

The idea that they have "rights" is a false notion.

What might help is that phone line service that you mentiond that patients can call,however if the patient is only in the emergency room and not in a psych ward,they sometimes are not aware that this service even exists.

Bearing in mind Im referring to Sydney metro and suburban hosptials.

At the same time though,personally when i stayed in a Neuropsychiatric unit i was treated respectfully.

However i also had a personal experience of abuse from an ambulance staff one time when i was crying and stating that i didnt feel doctors were doing enough to try to find the cause of my symptoms.

She stated "i'll section you at XXXXX,i can do that you know"

Most likely she had already stress and couldnt deal with a persons tears so she used an abuse of power as a "coping mechanism".It should never be ok to do this and it shouldnt be without repurcussions.

Regarding drug affected patients-In my view,people who have taken methamphetamines or other similar drugs should be placed in a seperate unit away from the normal psychiatric ward and i wish a new policy for that would be put in place.

[Troglodyte]

Part of the problem could be that nurses and doctors are trained to deal with physical injuries. And they can get quick results fixing broken bones, hart attacks, etc. But administering to a person in psychological distress is more complicated and not straight forward.

[Terry]

I'm sorry but you're barking.  The mental health system has locked me up with dangerous people, put me in solitary confinement and even tied me up once, and harrassed me in the community.  Who you think you are working for seems to be a very cute notion, but the truth is that the mental health system is quite probably evil.