Lived Experience Forum

[Rick]

I have cut and pasted my response to an article about a recent police shooting.

I invite others in the forum to share their experiences. I also suggest that to read a copy of the report you should google Jan Kealton and police shootings.

I am a mental health worker and activist, i am slo a person who has lived with severe and persistant mental illness for over 30 years. In that time I have had quite a few occasions to be in direct contact with Police. It would be fair to say that the job of a police person is a difficult and stressful one. On the other hand that can be said of most jobs and people in our society.
I have found in my contact with police whilst being acutley ill that they for the most part have been insensitive, intimidating , fearful, threatening and abusive. If I was not so well versed in The past and current Mental Health legislations both state and federal I would have been bullied, handcuffed , tasered or pepper sprayed on more than one occasion. These threats having been made by attending police officers.
When I have stated that their behaviour has been inapproprate I have been met with fould lanuage and more threats to keep my mouth shut.

The recommendations outline in the report to govt by Jan Kealton and others have certainly not been taken on.
At the very least the Police as a organisation are in desperate need of up to date training on how best to attend someone who is mentally ill.

I agree totally that police should serve at least a five year probation period before being allowed to carry firearms as part of their shift duties.
I believe that the majority of negative interactions that the mentally ill population have with the police service are based on the police persons fear and prejudice.
This is part of the over arching stygma attached to mental ill people.

I am appalled that another life has been cut short by police in Qld. There is more than just an emerging pattern here. I would say better education and most importantly the will to improve service delivery by  Police should be an agenda all of it's own.

Those of us who live with mental illness have enough burdens to carry. Like anyone else we must deal with the everyday probelms and challenges that life creates for us. On top of this we carry the burden and stygma of a mental illness. This means that mentally ill people do in fact carry a heavier load than those who do not suffer form illness.
Must we also be in fear for our very lives when dealing with Govt sanctioned agencies?"

[ninablack]

Police make my behaviour worsten because of the way they handle me, and the attitude they show.. I find they think people like me are a waste of life,, I have bpd..

[Jaye-Kay]

thank you for this post: I have witnessed and experienced some very insensitive and inappropriate behaviour, not only from police but from other supposedly responsible representatives of public organisations; including front-line staff of housing depts and benefits offices etc

so I am responding, I suppose, to more than the focus on keeping the peace - but on a pervasive problem of basically, insensitive and callous attitudes to thementally ill, depite pc public propaganda

you wrote "Must we also be in fear for our very lives when dealing with Govt sanctioned agencies?"

if we are not in fear of our lives, we will be in fear for our basic sanity - or our chances of recovery as we get treated the human waste again and again - then blamed for the compouned problems we have

as for the "zero tolerance policy" ha! (our staff will not tolerate abusive behaviour etc) I feel utterly cynical about this as I have witnessed public service staff deliberately baiting and provoking mentall unwell people, till they loose it and start shouting. then they can be kicked out and there is, then no responsiblity towards them 

quite sickening really. I have witnessed it - and one security guard was so skilled at this that he managed to llure his "victom int camer shot while he himself was off camera - so his sadistic taunts were hidden and all that was on filmwas a distressed patient, ranting. sickening......  

[bob300]

Also consider the NSW story of Fiona Barbieri and her son Mitchell: survived their locked home being broken into, psychotic teen killed the boss policeman, 35 years gaol, 10 for the Mum. Censored by Carers NSW, Young Carers, Schizophrenia Fellowship, Mental Health Commission.

[SCORPION]

Hi Great post and so true here in WA we have had similar shooting's.
Unfortunatly until whole of society changes there attitude and see M.H as the same as a broken leg I.E. we have a partof us that is broken that needs to heal or to live with. things wont change.
my wife has epilepcy and is treated at time's like a leaper as well. any time ther is a problem in the human brian is scares joe public to hell.
Scorpion

[CannonSalt]

I've recently had a bit of contact with police and have tried to do my civic duty.

I've found that I have difficulty with the questioning manner used by the police (when and where did you find it? why didn't you call us sooner?). It has flustered me and made me a bit anxious - although I've done nothing wrong (in one case, I was reporting as an appendix to the first report, because I saw more.). This isn't ideal.

The police are just trying to get to the bottom of things. They do want timely, accurate information. They are humans who have bellybuttons, etc. 🙂

How does this kind of a report normally get handled by the police? what's the 'script' for a do-gooder who wants to report something, what can I expect? I think that if I had more of an idea of this, I could better manage my anxiety, not get 'read' as anxious or deceptive by police, and be more helpful, if need be.

[Appleblossom]

I was shocked to read about the Mitchell and Fiona Barbieri case. I had not heard of it before.  I tried to find out reasons for the paranoia and siege and sudden attack on police in the reportage. The rapid escalation shows it was poorly handled ...

I could find out were that the mother and son had lived without water and power whilst the neighbour was installing flood lights ... there was certainly some imbalance. There was no attempt by media to give balanced reporting which made me sad .. behind the use of an exotic psychiatric term "folie a deux" ... it seems we are going backwards as a society in our treatment of people with mental illness.

I was concerned to raise my son with respect for the law .. and did so. 

I am not justifying murder .. but I try and understand it ... not write it off as ... delusional ... because someone has paranoid schizophrenia.  Why werent mental health professionals called out with police as back up ... then the unfortunate death of the decorated larrikin policeman may have been avoided.

[bob300]

Thanks for your interest. The best clinical account presently is the sentencing decision by Justice Hulme. The mother had persecutory delusions about the NSW Police as part of her chronic paranoid schizophrenia (a first episode for her), beginning when the son was 15. They lived together and by 17 years of age he had her delusions: the "folie a deux" first in the French scientific literature in 1877. I completely excuse the "murder" because they were both psychotic in relevant ways and the police violence was unjustified: they were clearly defending. I think the murder did arise solely because they were psychotic, expecting to be killed. DI Anderson then commenced to do that: kicking their locked door down, capsicum spraying their two dogs who rushed out. The reporting was awful and uncorrected to this day. SANE Australia and their Stigma Watch have been useless.

Anderson properly wanted to arrest the son: on the Monday they had left a thought-disordered but apparently threatening note for the unfortunate neighbours - his response was the floodlighting. On the Thursday, when they saw what was being installed, mother and son argued with the tradesman and neighbours: the mother was carrying a baseball bat, and the son fired 2 arrows "in the direction" of the neighbours (charged with assault ie threatening, not attempted murder). They locked themselves in their own home with their two dogs before any police arrived. 

Police had scheduled the mother into Nepean Hospital 19 months previously, discharged after 5 days on no medication with "1st manic episode (?) (induced by antidepressants)" (ie an illness caused by doctors/prescription drugs).

When you say we are going backwards: Anderson's violence occurred 3 weeks after the coroner published findings over the death in Pitt Street Sydney of Roberto Curti, Brazilian student chased by police, multiple tasers, multiple capsicum sprays, enormous weight of police on him, police lies and 4 charged.

Coroner's inquest into Bryson Anderson has been postponed twice, no new date set, presumably reflecting that the Coroner isn't buying the "Anderson as hero just doing his duty" story. Whatever the coroner says, nothing to suggest anything will change.

Fiona Barbieri recovered in gaol on antipsychotics, her son in his gaol away from his ill mother. Both untreated in the community. Minister for Mental Health uninterested. Commissioner for Mental Health won't look into real cases, gets his ideas elsewhere. Turns out to be a public service lawyer who's boss is the Minister for Mental Health.

[Ali585]

I am sorry to hear that others have had such poor experiences with police. I was quite unwell for most of last year and had several encounters with police. By a quick count I remember at least 7 times but it could have been more. 

Overall I am quite happy with the way I was treated. I wasn't happy at the time about being taken to hospital - but I understand looking back. And I felt I was treated with respect and dignity. I was given as much control over the situation as I could be and transported to hospital by ambulance rather than in police vehicle where possible. 

And although you could have understood if they were frustrated with me when I had repeatedly left hospital despite being detained I still felt that I was treated well and with respect.

[bob300]

Really great to read your judgement looking back, hope you stay really well. NSW Police claim around 50,000 mental health incidents a year, presumably the vast majority involve respect and dignity, otherwise there would be more complaints. Bryson Anderson's prompt violence has to be the rare exception: his 11 junior police had been there two hours without violence, his senior rank is disturbing.

More worrying is that Commissioner Scipione turned him into a hero, hasn't acknowledged that the targets were probably the most pathetic mentally ill family in NSW, and hasn't acknowledged that police have special duties with people with mental illness. Police Minister in parliament claimed Anderson "died trying to save alleged offenders from themselves by defusing a violent confrontation" whereas Anderson launched the violence.

The media haven't explored how a Sydney mum was left psychotic for 4 years untreated, how her 15 yo boy was left with her so that he became psychotic within 2 years, now 35 years gaol for murder, recovered in gaol.

There is extensive censorship of their plight, including by CarersNSW and Schizophrenia Fellowship NSW. NSW Mental Health Commissioner says nothing although supposed to "drive reform." SANE Australia nothing to say.