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04 Aug 2021 08:52 AM
04 Aug 2021 08:52 AM
Happy Birthday and I hope that you had a wonderful day! I am very pleased that you received so many calls especially from your daughter. It's great that they will be coming for a visit in about a month. My hubby prefers to keep his birthday low key too so I took him for a drive and bought him a pie for lunch. He enjoyed that. We are going for a drive into the hills today to visit a waterfall, so that should be nice. Looking forward to some nicer weather today.
Meggle
04 Aug 2021 11:45 AM - edited 04 Aug 2021 11:47 AM
04 Aug 2021 11:45 AM - edited 04 Aug 2021 11:47 AM
Hello @Oaktree
Thank you for your reply and pleasant wishes
There are not many waterfalls over here. In fact most of the 'rivers' North of Perth, in the Southern half of WA, only have water and flow for a few weeks a year after heavy rain. I remember beautiful water falls in Qld, from when my family lived there when I was a child.
I hope that you have a really lovely day
With Best Wishes
HenryX
04 Aug 2021 06:24 PM
04 Aug 2021 06:24 PM
Ok now that we are home I can tell you where we went today. We went to Noble Falls in the hills and then drove almost to Toodyay and followed the road to Northam. We walked across the suspension bridge which moves a lot more than I remember it doing 20 - 30 years ago. Then we spent an hour looking around the Aboriginal Cultural Centre in Northam just across the bridge because we parked on the opposite side of the Avon River. Then we drove on to York and had a late lunch at the bakery. I forgot to mention that we stopped on the way to the falls for breakfast at Hungry Jacks. We had a wonderful day and the weather was just beautiful. I can't remember the last time the two of us left the house for anything besides shopping. York is my place that grounds me so I was glad to get out that way for a drive even though we didn't go to the Mt Brown lookout as we usually do. I love the green fields. It was stunning. We are home again now and it is back to normal life unfortunately. Psychologist tomorrow then seeing my psychiatrist on Friday so a big couple of days ahead of me. I hope that you had a wonderful day with this nice weather. Maybe you got more done on those last few posts for your fence?
Meggle
05 Aug 2021 12:07 AM
05 Aug 2021 12:07 AM
Hello @Oaktree
It is interesting that, last night, I spoke of the rivers North of Perth thinking that you were in the Eastern States. Now I realise that you would be familiar with what I was speaking of.
I used to drive a school bus run from near Bolgart into Toodyay. Also worked in Northam for a while. I do recall the suspension bridge. Another connection was in a choral group singing at York on a number of occasions.
The weather here yesterday and today was lovely, as you describe during your drive. I am pleased that the day was really very pleasant for you, particularly, since you mention not having been out together for some time. I think that Mt Brown is at the top of a road that is closed off occasionally for car club hill climbs, and soapbox derbies, if I remember correctly.
I was out with a farmer, last weekend, looking around some farm paddocks with friends from Perth. He commented on how good the crops looked, and the richness of the green. As you say, it really is stunning.
Like you, I have an appointment with the counsellor tomorrow, possibly singing in the morning depending on the time that friend will be coming to work with me on the fence. Although I didn't work on the fence today, I did do some shovel, rake and wheelbarrow work, with Kirra's “assistance”, which was throwing the ball for her. So my exercise regime was somewhat extended.
Thank you for your note describing yesterday's drive. I am familiar with, and can identify the locations and each of the places that you visited in your drive.
With My Best Wishes
05 Aug 2021 11:14 PM
05 Aug 2021 11:14 PM
I went and saw my psychologist today. The appointment itself went ok. We just talked about how I could work on making more friends as I talked about how lonely I feel. Making friends is hard for me. I have decided to try and go back to choir practice and see if I could possibly develop a friendship there. Then we mapped out the steps of the therapy that we are going to pursue. That's where I started to feel scared. I don't have the faith that I can do the work that my psych wants to do. They want to use the Gestalt chair technique which I find makes me self conscious and then eventually get to a place where we do imagery rescripting. I just feel paralysed by the fear. If I can't do the imagery rescripting then there is no point even starting with the schema therapy side of things. I really don't want to waste anyone's time. Mine or my psychologist's. There are so many people who are waiting to get in to see the psychologist. I just don't know what I want to do. I came home from my appointment, had a shower and went to bed like at 3pm. I gave my psychologist a call later in the afternoon and I was just a mess. I don't know why I am such a basketcase. What if I do the therapy and my life is no better or no more meaningful? Then what will it all have been for? I am scared as I said before and I don't know why I am doing it except that I sort of kind of think it may be helpful in the long run. I don't know!
Meggle
06 Aug 2021 02:23 AM
06 Aug 2021 02:23 AM
Hello Meggle,
I arrived home at about 10.30pm, took some tablets and now I'm mentally wandering and need to go to bed.
My response is mostly written, but I would like to review it with a clear mind, which will be tomorrow morning.
Today, now yesterday, I also had a discussion with my counsellor, fence work during the day and meeting this tonight.
Consequently, I look forward to completing my note to you in the morning.
Very Best Wishes
06 Aug 2021 10:07 AM
06 Aug 2021 10:07 AM
Hi @HenryX
Glad to hear that you got more done on your fence. How did things go with your councillor?
Meggle
06 Aug 2021 09:30 PM
06 Aug 2021 09:30 PM
Hello Meggle
Last night I had prepared most of this note to you, but, as I said, wanted to check it. My friend arrived at 9 am today. We completed the fence this afternoon. I am pleased to be sitting down. This project has certainly extended me physically. But, I want to get this note to you this evening. This note is a little “punchy”, but in essence, it is, I believe, a reflection of both our situations. Whatever I may say applies to me as much as I think that it may apply to you, and is really a product of my own experience and reality. I do hope that it carries meaning for you, either in ways that you may agree with and, or challenges, to the way you may think of your own situation, whether in agreement or difference.
Snap!!! I also spoke with my counsellor yesterday. To some degree, I felt that I was somehow skirting around the deeper issues. How do I do that? It is during the discussion, that I realise that the conversation is not really developing, or addressing the real issues. That I am talking, but the conversation has deviated from the key point that started that particular line of discussion. It is called avoidance. I become aware that I am probably not getting out of our discussion, what I am there for. Now to some degree, according to the way that I think about “therapy”, it is the counsellor/psychologist/therapist's responsibility to guide the discussion, But, I have a responsibility to myself, and I know that the person with whom I am speaking, needs to recognise and acknowledge what is my responsibility. In fact, it is our shared responsibility.
The person with whom I am speaking, and I, have to allow some margin, but also try to respect some boundaries to the swing in conversation. It seems to me that the psychologist may have acknowledged your request not to move too quickly. The discussion for you appears, from what you have said, was about friendships, and ways in which you may be able to engage with other people, in a way that is a genuine expression of you, as a person in your own right, in the quest for genuine companionship, as you would anticipate experiencing from a good friend. Your comment then was,
“We just talked about how I could work on making more friends, as I talked about how lonely I feel.”
Then, in your note, you talked about having decided to,
“....... try and go back to choir practice to see if I could possibly develop a friendship there.”
If therapy for you is just about sorting out how to make friends, and going back to choir practice is the step you've decided that you need to take to fulfil that wish. If that's all there is to therapy, isn't the problem solved? without going back over old, very unpleasant territory and events in your life. Why do you need all this Gestalt chair technique and imagery scripting stuff. {My counsellor has also introduced these techniques to our discussions. Not furtively or imposed, but as ways in which I could review and re-address the relationship between my father and me.}
Then the answer, regarding “Why?” comes back,
“I just feel paralysed by the fear.” That is a sign, in itself, about why. If there were no reason for the fear, why would you experience that fear?
And, assuming you allow the fear to be the dominant decider of what you do or don't do, anything else is a waste of time. Now, having preemptively decided that everything is going to be a waste of time for everybody, why proceed?
Then we get into the justification stage, that,
“Everyone else needs these discussions more than I do.”
So, since I don't want to waste my time, or that of the psychologist, and I don't want to deprive someone else, who surely needs that service more than I do, then by all accounts, that seems to be the end of the matter. Isn't it?
And all of that is classic avoidance, which is why I talked about me doing the same thing, during my counselling discussion, at the start of this note to you. I am very conscious of the ways that I can use to avoid dealing with the issues, that are inside myself. I also know that I need to address my hesitancy about facing these difficult issues. The primary issue being fear.
And, considering the fact that, in your own words,
“I gave my psychologist a call later in the afternoon and I was just a mess.”
“What if I do the therapy and my life is no better or no more meaningful?”
What if we do the therapy, on the basis that our lives may be significantly better than our negative beliefs have allowed them to be? A lot of people have supported us. I know, for my part, that there have been people, all through my life, who have wished better for me, than my adopted beliefs have allowed. I can see that in retrospect, and I truly wish that I could have seen that at the times that those wishes were thought and offered. Those thoughts and wishes were probably offered in your life as well as mine. You and I were simply not in the headspace to be able to acknowledge and accept the support that was offered. It is very likely that we were so busy trying to live our lives, in the best way that we possibly could, to have even been aware of, or acknowledged those offers of support. We were in a battle already, and battles are not the best place to figure out the important issues in our lives.
Unfortunately, it is very difficult to accept that we may not have realised that there were good opportunities that we have forgone. And, if we now accept that, in our lives, aren't we just turning the finger of “accusation” inwards, towards ourselves. That is something we may have to accept. But we also need to acknowledge the difficulty that we would have had, in dealing with those issues, without having been given the personal skills required for the purpose. In this I am not trying to ascribe blame to someone or anyone else. I am simply saying that we never had certain life skills that other people had.
But, the prospect that we can forgive ourselves, for the inability that we have had, in not being able to recognise the negative aspects of our lives, leads to our incapacity to respond to offers of assistance. The fact that we may have to forgive ourselves may be the foundation and reason for our fear. There is this issue, I think, that we have to forgive ourselves first, even in principle, before we can take more steps to a better life.
Avoidance, I believe, in some respects is an expression of our difficulty to forgive ourselves, in order for us to move forward in our lives. - My counsellor should be able to see what I am writing here, because it is truly a case of one finger forward in direction or guidance, but three fingers backward, pointing to the writer, me.
You and I have both been told repeatedly, by the most significant people in our lives, that we are no good, unworthy, and all the rest of the unpleasant things that we have been told, projected on to us, and expected to believe – and unfortunately, for most of our lives, we have. It is only fairly recently, that you and I have questioned those beliefs, that we have adopted from our respective significant parent. You, by now know enough about me, to appreciate that there are many similarities in our lives. So, in many ways, there are connections, apart from gender. As we've discussed also, there was a match in terms of your mother and my father. The gender connection. A lot of the emotional and verbal abuse, may have been, and is more likely to have been more damaging than any physical abuse that ever occurred.
The capacity to forgive ourselves also implies something that needs to be forgiven. And, if something needs to be forgiven, does that not imply fault on our part? Not necessarily. The forgiveness that I am talking about, is that aspect of our lives, where we need to forgive our incapacity, before we can move forward. If we cannot do that, then we are really going to have difficulty bridging the gap between where we are and where we want to be.
With My Best Wishes
07 Aug 2021 03:25 PM
07 Aug 2021 03:25 PM
Hi @HenryX
I feel the need to respond to your last message but right now I just can't. Talk to you later I hope.
Meggle
07 Aug 2021 07:05 PM
07 Aug 2021 07:05 PM
Hi @HenryX
Avoidance sounds right! That's exactly what it is. When something is too hard my first instinct is to run away. The question is though is the pain of therapy and walking through the fire of my past going to be worth it. That is a question that I really can't answer until I have actually done the therapy. As you say perhaps the fear comes from an incapacity to forgive ourselves. I don't know? All my life I was told that I was not good enough and I believed it. Is it that that I need to forgive myself for? I was a child and didn't ask to be treated the way I was. It wasn't my fault! I was a good kid. Always trying my best to stay out of trouble because I was scared of the consequences. I remember watching my siblings and when they would get in trouble I would think well I won't do that. So as not to get into any trouble. I don't know what else I could have done to make things different.
Meggle
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